Black Hawk College - Sauk Yearbook (Moline, IL)

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to use it in your sermons? GRUBB: Almost everything that I quote, I like. For instance, I love Biff Rose-iust think he is fan- tastic. I haven't heard all of the Beatles' new album Abbey Road. I heard a couple of cuts on the radio and I wasn't too impressed with them. I like the other album, you know, the white one. I like it very well. I think the only thing I ever bought to use was The Ghetto. I heard it on the radio and so I bought it to get the words. That's the only thing I ever bought for that purpose. SAUK: I-lave you set a goal for yourself? GRUBB: I don't think so, but like what? SAUK: ls there any philosophy that might sum up your life? GRUBB: Ah? Yes, I suppose somehow-this is maud- lin and this is badly said-but, like the Airplane said, Come on people, get together and try to love one another right now. This is it, this is the essence of Christianity. We have to learn how to love somebody else and to receive their love in return. There are a lot of dangers in loving, we have all discovered that already. We all have a knack for loving the wrong people and getting smashed and getting hurt. And immedi- ately that's it-never again. I'Il never let down the barrier-never again. But you can't live that way. You have to risk getting hurt. Then, when you look at it, love only makes sense if the person I love has the power of hating me. He has to be able to choose. Even in the act of hating me, he has to have the ability to hate me. And this is all part of the risk, because what will I receive in return? So-this idea of love and our real need for each other. Animals stand in the corn field alone and I don't suppose one cow needs another cow. Emotionally, I don't want to be a cow. I want to be a human being, and this means I've got to lean on somebody else, but l'd be strong enough for somebody to lean on me, and then somebody else can lean on him. Always lean on someone else, and it's when we try to stand alone that we begin to fall. And so I think that's probably it-the idea that we've got to come on people, smile on your brother. SAUK: Father, was there any one person who in- fluenced you into becoming a priest? GRUBB: There was a person-she was a music teacher in Des Moines. Her name was Miss Ruth Rickards. I didn't realize what a real in- fluence this babe had on me until about four or five years ago. I was driving home, at Christ- mas time, listening to the radio and singing along-you know, all these Christmas carols. As I was doing these things, I said to myself, Where did you learn all these songs? Then I thought where I did-in high school under Miss Rickards Then I started thinking, What else did you learn, fella? and all ofa sudden it hit me I was a real un olished iewel when thatwom . p - an got hold of me and she never really noticed it. She never noticed that I was a real clod and she always talked to me as if I were smart, and I was a real vulgarian. And lust talking to her and being in her class, I learned something about music and you learned something about serious music, and the whole world began to open up. I think this whole idea about the beauty of the world had a whole lot of impact on my decision to go into the seminary. So this gal had a great deal of influence. It amazed me, really, when I started thinking about it. It turned out to be a consolation, really, because I was teaching school at the time and I thought that maybe I'd strike a note in one of those kids I was teaching and maybe in fifteen or twenty years he may remember that he learned something and that's worth it. When I got home to my brother's house, one of the first things I did was call this woman up. This amazed me because I don't think I had ever called her in my life and certainly hadn't talked to her in years. I said, Miss Rickards, you may not remember me. . but that's as far as I got. She said, Jim, how are you? . I was well and so I told her why I had called and that I wanted her to realize how I was in her debt and what she had done for me. We had a real nice conversation. SAUK: Did any of your first parishes have an in- fluence on you? GRUBB: The only place I was-Washington-was a very safe town. There were no problems there because they were good Christian folk-you know the type-retired farmers, there's no slum, there's no racial problems because there was only one Negro who worked at the Post Office, was a very good man, and knew his place. So everything was great. Beer cannot be sold at a grocery store, it has to be sold at a tavern to protect the children. Just a real good place. So it influenced me-somewhat negatively. But in seminary I was lucky. I went to Immaculate Conception Seminary, like I mentioned. And talk about the Benedictines-their big bag was the liturgy and, as a matter of fact, I learned things there a long time ago that are iust coming into the Church. I learned that these things are going to happen. For example, back in 1948 I learned that there would be liturgical dancing in the Church again. And so last year at the liturgical convention in Portland, they had some girl do a dance at the offertory. I wasn't surprised. Twenty years ago I knew this was going to come. So being there was a great thing. They were avant-garde and so I fit in-I think so, I hope so. Although I changed. When I was there, we learned that the square note of the Gregorian Chant was the biggest boon to mankind since the invention of the round wheel. And, wow, in Wash- ington I tried for four years to get those poor people to sing Gregorian Chant. Oh! Dismal failure! And it should have been, really, because a chant has nothing to say to us. Another theory of mine is that of, say, religious art and secular art-this isn't a good distinction. Art is art and, if it is good, it is religious because art is the good, the true, and the beautiful, and sometimes also defines God lthe good, the true, and the beautifull. So we have two paintings... No, say we have the Sistine Chapel ceiling and a Van Gogh print here. Which is the most religious? Wow, can't say, they're both religious. If the Van Gogh print is good, true, and beautiful, then it is religious. Now the same thing with music: if it's good, true, and beautiful, then it's good art and it's religious even though there isn't a thy or thine in the whole thing. I must worship God in I969. I must worship him as a I969'er because this is when I live-I mean, in this particular year-so the music I use should be the music of this era. But there are very few women, I should imagine, who are out in their kitchens whipping up Betty Crocker cakes and yelling out, Now thank we all our God , they iust don't do that. Alright, six days a week, what do you sing? Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da, something like this? Then if this is what I use for six days a week, it seems to me that if my worship of God is coming straight from me then it should be the same type of thing that I live with, that is mine. SAUK: Do you get many sightseers at the Folk Mass? GRUBB: No one likes to be looked at and be treated like some kind of anomaly. At Communion time, someone will come down and touch me. One day

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So we had to find some way of breaking down this barrier that people have put up around Themselves and to get them involved with each other, to make them try to care about each other. This was the goal we had, and everything was to evolve around this. When I introduced the Kiss of Peace, for example, the idea was this: that it is very difficult to be indifferent to someone who has his arms around you and you have to react in one way or another. A heartful act is better than no act at all. So we started this and I have oftentimes mentioned it took a long, long time for this to catch on and it still hasn't caught on yet. People are too up- tight about touching each other. A year ago last August, I don't know why or how it happened, but I started preaching on the idea that we can- not be emotionally comfortable in each other's presence unless we can become physically com- fortable in each other's presence. But we have to be able to touch each other and not get pan- icky, and we normally panic because, with us, touching is almost always sexual. If you're crossing your legs in the classroom and you accidentally hit some other guy's foot, you both are going to pull your feet back, you pull yours back and he pulls his back as if touching your feet accidentally was tantamount to seduction, you know. And so we had to get this idea across- you've got to be able to touch each other. lt's very natural to touch each other. Clip out pic- tures of the Mets in their dressing room and see that when people are happy they touch each other, they iump up and down, they hug each other, and they kiss each other and this is very natural.-So we have to get to act naturally. Okay? SAUK: How do other clergymen within your own church and in other churches react to the 12:00 Mass and your ideas? GRUBB: Almost, I would say, every pastor in the Davenport-Bettendorf area, with the exception of my own pastor Monsignor Feeney, wishes I would go away. They have no use for me, ab- solutely none, and the strange thing is that most of them have never heard me talk. For example, I am forbidden to speak at Assumption. Three times the kids have asked me to come out and speak to them and three times the administra- tion has said no. One day, I asked the principal why and he said he didn't want me to become a circus-which meant, of course, You are a circus now. So they wish I would go away. However, l'm not going and as a result they have to make some changes, which is really great. One week ago, we had a meeting of all the clergy. We had a priest who is a member of the National Council of the Bishops' Liturgical Com- mission who was discussing the new Mass rite which is coming out late this fall or early next year, and it is real odd. Almost everything that is being put in the new Mass rite is what we have been doing down here for almost a whole year. In fact, Monsignor Feeney was real pleased, he was running around telling everyone that we've been canonized. So these things that they disliked, they are going to have to do them- selves. But again the difficulty is this: it isn't iust a matter of guitars or this sort of thing. What makes the difference, to me, of a good liturgy and a bad liturgy is the priest himself. If he is dull, if he is uninteresting, if he reads badly, you could have 180 guitars and the best folk singers in the world and it would be a drag, a real drag. When I was younger, there was an actress named Tallulah Bankhead who used to be on the telly. She used to periodically read the telephone book, lust names and addresses but with expression, so it meant something. If you know how to communicate and you know how to use words, you've got something going for you. This is what most priests have to learn, how to read with some degree of intelligence. SAUK: Were you ever interested in acting? You're really quite a showman. GRUBB: I was in plays in the seminary and I really knew how to hoak it up. You've got to be able to hoak it up. For example, down in the seminary I got to be president of the drama club, and one of my functions was to read a bunch of plays to see which plays we could put on. Obviously the thing to do was to choose a play that I could have a leading role in. In high school I was kind of shy-I wasn't too outgoing-and it took me a little while to get steam up. But then I was pretty good in the seminary. But you have to hoak it up be- cause people are used to reasonably good acting and reading from television. If you have heard the recordings of Charlton Heston reading the Psalms or of Charles Laughton reading the Scriptures-Wow! the Scriptures iust came alive. The guy could pick out the meaning and com- municate it to you, and this is acting. All good public speaking is acting because you want to move someone, you want to have an effect on them. Just looking at the people and smiling- anyone can do that if they have their own teeth. Now if you iust rent a pair or carve 'em out like George did. .. SAUK: Did you ever think of aligning yourself with some national group as Father Groppi did? Or would you rather stay a parish priest? GRUBB: Oh, l'd rather stay a parish priest! l'm not a real reformer. Actually, as a matter of fact, I don't work well when l'm hassled. Almost always when an article in the paper comes out about me, every nut in the country gets on the telephone to call me up and give me hell and send anonymous letters normally signed A Disgusted Catholic. I sometimes think the tense is wrong, it should be in the present tense for the participle disgusting Catholic. So I would prefer iust to be able to have the Mass as we have it and to be able to go about my every- day life like everybody else, but I can't. I can't even go out to get a few shots without all kinds of consternation. I went over to Hunter's one day for a hamburger and a few beers-iust walked in the place, fifteen guys yelling at me. So I leave and go someplace else, you know. There was this woman down at Parker's on the mezzanine at the gift-wrapping counter who called me over one of the last times I was down there and told me she thought I was disgusting. Yeah, weird people. Groppi needs a cause. Groppi can't exist without fighting somebody. As a matter of fact, when he was in the civil rights thing some- body asked him what he was going to do when it was over. He said, l'll find something else. He needs it. I suppose he operates better when he's hassled, but I don't. l'd lust kind of like to be kind of quiet-do my little thing. SAUK: Do you have any hobbies? GRUBB: I have a fish aquarium and my records, but I iust don't get a chance to do anything. I used to go fishing and Honda-ing until this kid bor- rowed my Honda and totaled it out, and he didn't have any money so that was out. I used to enioy that. What I enioy is anything where I can get out away from the house, where it's quiet. Golfing is not for me. At least, from the golfers l've seen, none of them are relaxed. I haven't seen a relaxed golfer yet. They're all on the verge of a nervous breakdown out there, you know. SAUK: You quote quite often from modern music. Do you listen to it because you like it or lust

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it was very warm and some woman came down and dabbed my forehead, you know, collecting relics. I should have raped her right then. i As long as you're collecting, baby. l This, and then the people outside always want their picture taken with me or to have me go over and meet somebody. I don't mind this so much, but it's those who iust don't believe it. Like, any number of people from Washington have been up here and some are so angry that they won't even speak to me afterwards. This is a real strange thing to react so adversely to something, so you say, WeIl, what the hell did you come here for in the first pIace? SAUK: lsn't the fact that they react strongly-either pro or con-at least something, though? GRUBB: Oh, yeah. At least they're not indifferent but, you know, l've mentioned this before. But it seems to me that there are two things that typify extremist groups on both sides: On the both extremes, an extremist is absolutely in- tolerant of any of the viewpoints but his own. With these people, it isn't enough that they don't like the twelve o'clock Mass and express their opinion of it-they want it stopped. They don't want anybody to have it-it's an evil thing. They're absolutely intolerant of any other view- points. And then, two, they're completely devoid of any sense of humor, and that's too bad. Some of these people from Washington have heard about it-for awhile the in thing was to read Portnoy's Complaint, now it's switched-and the in thing is to go see Father Grubb's Mass, and that's a generalized phrase, see Father Grubb's Mass . People will call on the phone and ask, Do you have a twelve o'clock Mass? Yes, we have a Folk Mass every Sunday at twelve. Yes, but are you saying it? This bugs me. WeII, we haven't decided yet. We'lI flipfor it. SAUK: Have the older people adapted to it? GRUBB: Oh, a bunch of the older people love it. And the reason is that older people like to be where the action is. It makes them feel young to hang onto something, so they enioy it. SAUK: Have you ever been connected with drugs by the people around here? GRUBB: Last year it was rumored that I was the leader of the Quad-City drug racket. This one gal got on the Ruth and Fred Show and said, AII of Father Grubb's dear little friends will tell you he drops acid all the time. I said, No, I don't take acid. I know absolutely noth- ing about acid. I know nothing about 'double domes', 'purple flats', 'blue cheer', 'orange wedges', 'yellow sunshine'-I know absolutely nothing about these things. I think that the present mariiuana laws are ridiculous and that they should be changed. Perhaps it should be legalized, I think it isn't nearly as bad as it's painted. SAUK: Are there any special advantages in being a priest? GRUBB: I think being a priest has distinct advan- tages in working with people because, iust by virtue of the fact that you're a clergyman, you gain entrance to a bunch of places. Then, too, if you turn out to be halfway civilized and half- way normal to the kids-they're so surprised because they don't expect this from a clergy- man-they think you're much better than you are and they accept you. I think acceptance by young people comes by our own attitude. If they think we understand them-or perhaps it they think we're not trying to understand them, we're iust trying to accept them-I think they will accept us and that we will get along with them. And I think that one of the reasons that parents otten times don't get along too well with their kids is that sometimes parents have a positive knack for turning a kid off. I mean that they have an idea what he's going to say and whether he says it or not doesn't make any difference. The parents already know what he's going to say, so they don't even listen to him. I discovered this in giving a talk to a group of Episcopalian women. I gave an example about the two kids walking down the street and you couIdn't tell the difference, iust to illustrate a stupid argument. And yet this woman came up afterwards and said, I really agree with you. I, too, have wondered which is the boy and which is the girl. But I was saying iust the opposite of what she understood me to say. But I think this happens so often. SAUK: Father, do you think you are influencing young people to act like Christians? GRUBB: A lot of people have come to services now that have not come in a longtime. A number of boys and girls will come up to me after Mass and say that it's been three or four years since they've been in Church, and that they've really liked it. And I think that we are reaching them. The strangest thing about Christians-I have a buddy over here at the hotel who's a Negro and was a seminarian but he dropped out-no, they threw him out-of seminary because they said he gave one of the negative signs at invocation- whatever this is, I don't know-anyway, he went to the service and, when he came back, he told me that he dropped out of the Church and he's a martyr now, and he said that you can tell that the teachings of Christ are one thing and the behavior of Christians is quite another. I find Christianity where I find Christians. I have nothing against Christianity. It's the Christians I can't stand. lt's the Christian who has kept me in the ghetto. It's the Christian who has bought the houses and has charged me twice as much rent as a house is worth. lt's the Christian who puts me down. And, I think most people can get an idea of what Christian living can be. Again- you asked about this philosophy thing-once people experience what it is to have people care about you, to have people care what happens to you. Once you have experienced this, you don't want to be without it. And to talk about Christi- anity is one thing, but Christianity has to be ex- perienced. In fact, the way we teach anything is through experiencing a thing itself. lt's hard for us to overcome the absolute inertia of people and their love for their own independence. And they don't want to be involved, even emotionally, with anybody else, especially in the matter of religion. It's my God and l . Until we get this down, we're not going to really have a good Christian life or experience. SAUK: In your Mass, there's really no denomina- tion, is there? GRUBB: No. This one kid was in last December and he had been coming to the twelve o'clock Mass for three or four months. And I said, By the way, what religion are you? He replied, Yours. l didn't know you were Catholic, really. I-Ie said, I didn't say I was Catholic. I said I belong to your reIigion. This kind of surprised me. It is almost to the point where we think to be Catholic is not to be a Christian-which is really weird. l've never asked anyone, You want to take instruction and ioin the Church? Maybe I should do this, I don't know. But I think if they want to, then they will ask me. And, if they want to, I will give them instruction. But I don't get too carried away with trying to change people. This thing of using con1.P.52